I think we tend to forget that there are thousands of cults around, most of which have fewer than 100 members.
The long-lived, big-numbered cults like JWs, Mormons, and Scientologists are extremely rare.
Mad Sweeney
JoinedPosts by Mad Sweeney
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23
Cult Documentary on Sundance
by dontplaceliterature ini watched a cult documentary called "join us" on sundance today.. it is showing a few more times, if you have that channel.
it was very interesting.
the cult that it follows uses a lot of the same lingo and focuses on a lot of the same scriptures as jehovah's witnesses.
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47
No Christian Congregation in Australia according to the Witchtower. HAHAHA
by hamsterbait inin the continuing court battle in australia, the legal counsel for the witchtower babble and trash religion shocked witless onlookers by saying the there is.
"no christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses in the state of victoria," or indeed the whole of australia.. hahahhahahahaha!.
at least they are not perjuring themselves as any fool can see that their congregations are not "christian".. check this on barb andersons thread!.
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Mad Sweeney
Mad,
You are not understanding why RvW said "there is no CCJW in Australia" - it's a technicality in name only!!!!!!!
No one is disputing that the JWs exist in Australia. They operate under the name of the WTS, not CCJW.
Why is that so hard for people to grasp????
I understand perfectly. If you think it is just a throwaway technicality, then you're not understanding why that is such an important statement for a Borg attorney to make.
It raises questions that have to be answered, one of which is "how does the leadership group (aka the Governing Body, the Faithful and Discreet Slave) of the worldwide religious organization in New York, USA, provide leadership to its members in Australia and around the world?" And if they do, then IT DOESN'T MATTER what they call themselves.
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47
No Christian Congregation in Australia according to the Witchtower. HAHAHA
by hamsterbait inin the continuing court battle in australia, the legal counsel for the witchtower babble and trash religion shocked witless onlookers by saying the there is.
"no christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses in the state of victoria," or indeed the whole of australia.. hahahhahahahaha!.
at least they are not perjuring themselves as any fool can see that their congregations are not "christian".. check this on barb andersons thread!.
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Mad Sweeney
BUT IF that U.S. corporation is sending letters to Watchtower Society of Australia OR to any _____________ Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses in Victoria, Australia and those corporations and congregations defer to its directives, then even without an official local presence, IT DOES exist in Australia.
THAT'S THE POINT!!!
If the Borg, in the name of CCJW, is directing the Australian corporations and congregations, and those corporations and congregations obey those directives, then it exists in Australia. If it is NOT, then the question arises: Just what relationship DOES the WTS of Australia and the various local Congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses HAVE with the HQ in New York, USA?
I can't imagine the GB saying there is NONE because that would be abdicating their God-given authority over the "belongings" worldwide. And if there IS a relationship, then THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE for the activities of their underlings to whatever extent the law determines.
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Mad Sweeney
Done. :)
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23
Cult Documentary on Sundance
by dontplaceliterature ini watched a cult documentary called "join us" on sundance today.. it is showing a few more times, if you have that channel.
it was very interesting.
the cult that it follows uses a lot of the same lingo and focuses on a lot of the same scriptures as jehovah's witnesses.
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Mad Sweeney
The style of lingo is the same in ALL cults. That's part of the mark.
Alas, I don't have Sundance channel. Missed "Worlds Apart" last night, too.
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47
No Christian Congregation in Australia according to the Witchtower. HAHAHA
by hamsterbait inin the continuing court battle in australia, the legal counsel for the witchtower babble and trash religion shocked witless onlookers by saying the there is.
"no christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses in the state of victoria," or indeed the whole of australia.. hahahhahahahaha!.
at least they are not perjuring themselves as any fool can see that their congregations are not "christian".. check this on barb andersons thread!.
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Mad Sweeney
The Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses was only created about 11 years ago to deal with U.S. interests.
If nothing else, this case should reveal to the world exactly what the legal relationship is between the Governing Body, the FDS, the CCJW, and the other corporations, if any. Exactly who told the elders in Victoria NOT to get background checks and exactly who changed their mind and told them TO get the background checks? What was their authority to do so, both legally and religiously?
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JW leadership vacuum - explained!
by sir82 injw leadership shows an appalling lack of creativty and originality.. -- meeting attendance down across the board?
let's keep the same 1940's format anyway!.
-- missionaries quitting their assignments?
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Mad Sweeney
Like MrDarkKnight, I thought of "The Peter Principle" upon reading Sir's initial post.
They have all risen above their level of competence while those who may have been competent have abandoned the sinking ship.
As for the effect, will it destroy the religion? Eventually, yeah. Not yet, but sooner or later the growth is going to become negative. It will then shrink down to just a few million and will stay there.
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The Watchtower Loses Action Against Bank (Fifth Third Bank)
by TJ Curioso inthe watchtower loses action against the bank "fifth third bank" - ohio, usa.. .
see here all the details and the final verdict:.
http://www.leagle.com/xmlresult.aspx?xmldoc=in%20ohco%2020111006735.xml&docbase=cslwar3-2007-curr.
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Mad Sweeney
Now that I've finished reading it, it seems to me that this thing *might* not be completely over.
Apparently in the original trial, both the bank and the Watchtower asked the court for "summary judgment" and the trial court denied the Borg's request and granted the bank's.
In this appeal, it looks to me (I'm not a lawyer but I've been in enough classes to understand a little of the vocabulary) as if the majority of appellate judges decided that the trial court was correct in denying summary judgment to the Watchtower but was INcorrect in granting summary judgment to the bank. This raises the question, which hopefully Band on the Run or someone else with qualifications can answer: does this mean the Watchtower can take another crack at the bank for its negligence?
Also, am I correct in understanding the document that the Watchtower can't get THAT $99K back FROM the estate (aka the dead man's family), but they can still sue the bank for screwing it up in the first place?
(PS. I know the document says Watch Tower and not Watchtower. What-the-heck-ever. We all know who we're talking about.)
(PPS. Could the motive of the Watchtower for waiting be a PR move? They didn't want to be seen as taking a hundred grand from the needy family of a dead JW but have no qualms about suing the bank for the screw-up?)
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The Watchtower Loses Action Against Bank (Fifth Third Bank)
by TJ Curioso inthe watchtower loses action against the bank "fifth third bank" - ohio, usa.. .
see here all the details and the final verdict:.
http://www.leagle.com/xmlresult.aspx?xmldoc=in%20ohco%2020111006735.xml&docbase=cslwar3-2007-curr.
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Mad Sweeney
There's the legal stuff, which is fairly interesting, and then there's what actually happened, which can only be speculated at.
Looks to me like Deitrich had named his mother as beneficiary to his accounts in the case of his death first. Then he went to the bank to ask for that to be changed to name the Borg as beneficiary. Bank staffer tells him that he has to fill out new paperwork to make it happen. He probably is unsure of the exact name to put on it (Watch Tower Society, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, Watch Tower, Faithful and Discreet Slave, Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, or what?) or some other specific detail he doesn't have to hand, and so tells the bank staffer he'll find out exactly what to put on it and then come back. It slips his mind and he never comes back. In the meantime, the beneficiary has been changed to Watch Tower in the bank's computer as the staffer was typing it up during Deitrich's visit, but the hard copy paperwork never got completed.
OR
Same sort of situation at the beginning but the bank was out of blank copies at the moment and the Xerox repairman was working on the copier at the time Deitrich was visiting the bank to change beneficiaries. Bank staffer apologizes for being unable to finish the changeover and can he please come back in an hour or so? Sure, he says, but he never does. Boom. Transaction is left completed in the computer but not on any hardcopy signed paperwork as required.
Oops.
There are other scenarios that may have happened, too, but I think my speculations are the two most likely.
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The Watchtower Loses Action Against Bank (Fifth Third Bank)
by TJ Curioso inthe watchtower loses action against the bank "fifth third bank" - ohio, usa.. .
see here all the details and the final verdict:.
http://www.leagle.com/xmlresult.aspx?xmldoc=in%20ohco%2020111006735.xml&docbase=cslwar3-2007-curr.
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Mad Sweeney
Another interesting line from paragraph 16:
Michelle Lewis, Watch Tower's manager of charitable planning, testified at deposition that Watch Tower became aware of the probate case shortly after it was filed. In a letter dated March 27, 2006, Watch Tower wrote its Ohio agent, attorney William Carse, as follows: "We would like to retain your services for the purpose of filing a notice of appearance on behalf of Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, and appearing at the May 2006, hearing at [probate court] with regard to the [Fifth Third] matter." One interesting thing is that the Borg seems to have an "agent" (lawyer) in every state - already lined up to get busy for the Borg when called for. More interesting is that a woman is the Borg's "manager of charitable planning" and able to testify in behalf of the organization. Fascinating. But in the Kingdom Hall she can't even carry a microphone or run a stereo system.